What if Donald Trump is neither an Enneagram 8 nor a 3?
There is much debate and even argument about Donald Trump’s Enneagram type. I have joined the ranks of this conversation, even though I am not keen on typing public figures. Why? Because we don’t really know them, we only think we know how they present themselves. That leads me to Donald Trump and also why I think it might be important to understand his type. To understand is, in a way, to be able to predict behavior better, although Enneagram type is far less about behavior and far more about motivation and drive. I write this not because I am sure of anything, instead I write this to get the conversation going.
Last week, Peter O’Hanrahan and I were having dinner, just chatting about our lives and politics since we both follow what is occurring in the latter domain. We were talking about Trump and all of the chaos that is currently ensuing, and I said something that I have been wondering for a long while. Could Donald Trump be an Enneagram 7 and not an Enneagram 8 or 3.
Although I have written several blogs on Donald Trump as an Enneagram 8, in the back of my mind I have thought “Is this really accurate?” I thought he was an 8 with a 7 wing, but the more I have observed him visually, noted his speaking patterns, and borne witness to his behavioral patterns, the more I have pondered that he could be an Enneagram 7 with an 8 wing.
Here’s what got me thinking; Trump does the following:
He pumps up his power using his hands, almost like a pump lever
8s | don’t use their hands to power-up; they power-up through their whole body
3s | don’t ”power-up”; they breathe into their shoulders, neck, and head to feel and appear confident
7s | don’t demonstrate embodied power; mostly in their head, so they need to “pump up”
The lower part of his body is not embodied, particularly his legs
8s | almost always embodied, grounded from their feet up, with energy in their legs
3s | may or may not be embodied, but more typically vacate their chest area rather than their legs
7s | not generally embodied; legs often vacant of energy, as well as the heart area
He has a limited attention span in general
8s | may or may not have limited attention spans; varies with person and context
3s | get impatient when things are too slow but, in general, do not have a limited attention span
7s | continuous limited attention span; get easily distracted by external stimuli and internal thoughts
He doesn’t read and likes only high-level details through short bullet points or visual graphics
8s | will read at length if interested in a topic
3s | read because they want to know what they need to know in order to feel competent and appear “on top of things”
7s | might read, although not thoroughly or in-depth; can “blow-off” learning in-depth, preferring to skim the main points
He has a low frustration tolerance
8s | low to moderate frustration tolerance, so simply take what they want in order to reduce frustration
3s | moderate frustration tolerance; perceive obstacles as frustrating but also as problems to be solved
7s | low frustration tolerance under most circumstances
He reframes negative information
8s | blame as a first line of defense rather than reframe
3s | typically only reframe potential or real failure
7s | reframe chronically for a variety of reasons
He’s narcissistic
8s | not particularly narcissistic unless grandiose
3s | sometimes narcissistic, depending on the level of self-development; lower levels are more narcissistic
7s | narcissistic; narcissism goes with type 7
He’s non-empathic
8s | some are more emphatic than others; some highly empathic
3s | some are more emphatic than others; some highly empathic
7s | non-empathic unless quite high in self-mastery
He hates being told “no”
8s | don’t like being told “no,” but few people say this to them, and 8s will do what they want anyway
3s | don’t dislike “no” any more than other people dislike it
7s | hate the word “no” and get reactive when being told this
He speaks in incomplete thoughts or statements
8s | speak in short sentences with complete thoughts
3s | speak in longer sentences than 8s, almost always with complete thoughts
7s | speak in “word salad” format, not completing thoughts or sentences
He communicates via stream of consciousness
8s | speak with deliberation, rarely impulsively
3s | speak with even more deliberation than 8s, being highly conscious of how they come across
7s | usually in mind, out mouth with little self-censoring
He desires respect and to be taken seriously
8s | usually respected so don’t need to desire it; most often taken seriously
3s | seek respect, but for what they accomplish and typically get it
7s | dearly want to be taken seriously and perceived as “heavyweights” rather than possibly “lightweights”
Why does it matter if Trump is an 8, a 3, or a 7? From my perspective, it would suggest how he is likely to react in these stress-filled and challenging times. If Trump is an 8, he would go into deep denial until his defense of denial would no longer function. Then he would crash. If Trump is a 3, he would go into more and more activity to prove his value until the point of failure. Then he would “hit the wall” and crash. If Trump is a 7, he would spiral down and nothing could stop this until he totally devolved, taking almost everyone with him in the process.
So what do you think? As a note, all comments that are rational, even if impassioned, are welcome. Inflammatory comments and name-calling are not.
Ginger Lapid-Bogda PhD, the author of seven Enneagram-business books, is a speaker, consultant, trainer, and coach. She provides certification programs and training tools for business professionals around the world who want to bring the Enneagram into organizations with high-impact business applications, and is past-president of the International Enneagram Association. Visit: TheEnneagramInBusiness.com | ginger@theenneagraminbusiness.com
Interesting Ginger – Mark and I have discussed this question often (I’m an ‘8’ and Mark’s a ‘3’) and we’ve asked other Enneagram followers what they think – and usually it’s 8 or 3… however what you point out above could well be more in line with his ‘scattered’ behaviour / language. One thing we did was relook at the lower health levels (Riso-Hudson) and he certainly fits into those lower emotional health areas – so now I will look at the lower health levels of ‘7’ – thanks for creating ongoing discovery 🙂
Oh! Thanks for the thorough breakdowns. I always thought of him as a counter phobic 6 but now I can see the 7!
Lmao smh…
100% He’s all about loyalty above all else!
like your use of behaviour characteristics to differentiate
obvious commander stands out
often total disregard for other
very independent thinker. outsmarted both parties on election.
a 10 on dominance
USA brand first. the defender
always the deal maker
i’ve taken comfort in his desire to win . he may appear reckless. like a fox i think.
for these reasons i still say 8 dominates as leader style. w strong 7 wing for all the reasons u listed
7 hates responsibility of any kind and hates being tied down to a thing. I can’t imagine a 7 running for president and sticking to it and not changing their mind. Narcissism (self love) is a three thing sevens are insecure. 7s cannot stand negativity and cannot upset others easily. Overall I think your points are valid but only in describing his wing
Jay, I agree with you about 7s not liking responsibility. 7’s are constantly thinking about the next exciting thing to do. This is evidenced in Trump’s career-Real Estate to Casino’s to Miss America to Reality Show to eventually President. Getting on the debate stage may have been as far as he thought it through?
Just one quick note…
Narcissism is not self-love. It is a cover for painfully deep insecurity that the ego cannot and will not allow one to feel and thus the narcissistic personality is dominant.
Thank you.
Thank you! I have often thought he isn’t an 8, and this 7 argument makes MUCH more sense to me. Also, I don’t think 8s can continue at work they feel incompetent at for such a long time. 7 w 8 makes so much more sense to my gut.
I don’t think he “feels incompetent” nor does his results show incompetency. Perhaps that could be ones own bias or perception than what he truly is. He has long been involved. Makes the deal. Works the deal. Doesn’t quit based on other’s perception of incompetency.
I think an 8 is accurate.
I’m an 8w7 and still believe he’s an unhealthy 8w7. I will watch body movements more and these are all valid points. Ultimately we don’t really know his motivations, so is it possible to ever really know? But I love to try! Thanks! This is great!
I agree with Jennifer. Regarding the use of his hands when he speaks, I think he probably used his whole body for emphasis more when he was younger. Many people are less animated as they age. 8w7 fits him best in my opinion.
I also want to add that many of his motions and word patterning are also parts of gifted iq individuals and Dabrowski’s overexcitabilities. I would put his iq in the range of highly gifted based on his 8 plus quirks and overexcitabilities. With people in gifted iq ranges, there has to be an overlay of those magnifications that can conflict with a wing or dominant style. Also, he may be directed to use more upper body movement for TV purposes. Do early Trump interviews show this same pattern? Or is it in the recent decade?
As much as I love the Enneagram, sometimes I can’t help but notice how oversimplification and confirmation bias plays a lot of part in how people interpret the Enneagram.
He has gifted IQ? I don’t agree to that. He lacks proficiency in any highly technical, scientific, overly complex matters. Hence why Trump keeps making his own decisions in regards to the virus without any consultation with the scientific findings.
As an ENTJ 8w9 or 7, I cannot fathom how someone could be this “base” or overly simplistic in their way of thinking.
Then again, I think he’s an ESTP 8w7. He’s a sensor who doesn’t see the bigger picture beyond the immediate moment. hes fit to be a business tycoon, but lacks any weight in terms of managing complexities with a lot of variables. Definitely not gifted in IQ, but gifted in the art of public speaking, sophistry and gaining clout.
The power of influence.
Hi, often one has to also be gifted to recognize the idiosyncratic parts of another gifted person. Dabrowski’s overexcitabilities example it and have been studied. Your statement was based on bias and influences your comment. Mine, on the other hand removes the bias and looks at outlier activity to overlay enneagram and gifted iq aspects. As a gifted person, I don’t use grandiose verbiage or side with every scientific study as fact. In fact, the higher the iq, the less agreeable, conforming to group think, you become and actualize as one’s self. For outliers, there must be some overlapping in enneagram, because enneagram is based on behaviors and processes of the norm. If he is outside the norm, he will potentially, if it has been studied, to overlap numbers that could appear as wings. Hope this makes sense! And, I hope the world stops labeling gifted iq and genius into a box – it really hurts my community.
agreed. No proof whatsoever of a high IQ.
there’s actually a bunch. Baron is also an international chess champion.
looks like his own decisions were correct and the biased
“science” was wrong.
Someone who’s highly gifted would not be telling others to inject disinfectant into their bodies. That’s a bunch of bollocks.
Trump is just a political animal, whose only fit to be a business tycoon.
Hi! I am profoundly gifted, and his actions and thoughts resemble highly to profoundly gifted. First, if you review the press briefing for that day, you would be able to find a direct quote within context. I watched the entire press briefing, and what he is saying, abbreviated, is about a conversation he had with the two doctors and others about ways to disinfect the blood. We do have ways to do that with UV light directly on externally circulated blood. Also, there is thought on how UV light produces vitamin D3, how it protects in the gut, and how it may be a type of disinfecting agent within the body. Also, what he is doing is known as the thinking process…brain storming. It is what would happen at the table behind closed doors. Instead, it was in the room with discussion and brain storming. How do you disinfect the blood with light or another type of disinfectant (like uv light named a disinfectant)? There is more verbiage than the oft repeated misquote out of context.
Also, what people don’t see about the gifted person is the brain storming and the calling for others to come forward with their ideas on how to do this. He did this with manufacturing machines, other ppe and other products. It is common as a business person to call to those in fields that can contribute or the at home inventor. It is calling for gifted or genius people to come out of the woodwork and cluster together to solve hard problems.
It is the essential need for innovation. Doesn’t this match his enneagram style layered with what a gifted iq person does? Gifted iq people are not aggreable to meet the normal or average societal perception of themselves. Often media or other do that in order to bring the person back to an understandable level.
I do not have to agree with his methods to see him as he is and how he functions. Many gifted traits could be seen as unhealthy but within the gifted context, outlier context, they are needed and part of that person’s expression of their cognition.
I have yet to find a place where those things overlap, but see a need to study it, perhaps.
It is just an added observation for discussion without personal bias or judgement of personal comfortableness.
Thank you for taking a look with a different perspective. In fact, his ability to be comfortable to trust his intuition or have adaptability in some areas, have made me open fo using my outlier skills as who I am as a person instead of hiding because people are uncomfortable with it (yelled at, bullied to shut up, kind of the language experienced here due to my observation).
Love this. Spot on!
Because you’re taking his words at face value. People in-the-know believe he was either speaking about MMS which is a miracle supplement demonized by FDA since it works wonders and loses big pharma money, and it is 1 ingredient away from bleach so they use that as their ammunition against the ignorant to discredit it as most haven’t experienced its effects. Or he was subtly warning against vaccines as they contains disinfectants. The last theory is that it was a bad joke since he hadn’t slept in, i believe it was 3-4 days at that point if i remember correctly (maybe more).
i agree 100% about the Gifted IQ
Lol at those downvotes. I could write a novel about how giftedness can create odd-looking Enneagram types, but I’d probably get death threats.
María
Hello Jennifer , my boyfriend is eight wing 7 and I don’t know how to deal with his intensity . And I am intense but emotionally ( I’m a 4) Could you consider opening up a channel for us partners of your type and giving tips to us ? 😅😅😅
Very interesting; thanks for your thoughts and your post. Trump’s frenzied activity and poor attention to detail make him (Like Boris Johnson) look like a Type 7, but down the levels (as per Riso-Hudson) several types fit that bill – and no-one’s denying that he’s down the levels.
What you omit is his pre-presidential history of land deals, appearance on TV shows and his dealings with Scotland etc: these don’t suggest a Type 7 at all: he’s not interested in experience and fun; it’s all about getting his own way. These, his choice of partners and his overweening narcissism suggest to me low-level Type 3.
Very persuasive comments, Ginger. An excellent analysis. I’ve been troubled by his typing as an eight, given some of his tendencies that don’t normally align, especially the narcissism. Looks as though a crash and burn may be coming.
Regards
Rob Noble
noble-works.net
These are very interesting observations, Ginger. I still think he is an 8 though. He is strongly motivated by revenge (the reason he run for president in the first place is to get back at Obama for making fun of him at the press club dinner). He expects blind loyalty. He loves confrontation. He also act like a mafia boss, expecting his children to follow him in his footsteps. All more 8. I do think he has a very strong 7 wing and a 3 fix.
Disagree. That would only seem true to someone incredibly biased. To think he only ran for president that reason is absolutely absurd, and shows a huge lack of critical thinking on your part.
I am a 7 and I am surrounded of 7 around me (my boss is 7w8) and no way Donald Trump can be a 7. A Presidential is too much commitment for us! We are so independent don’t forget it ;). We just hate any kind of control on us and for this reason we won’t try to control others’.
I think Trump is a 8w7. I can see many of his traits in the 8w7 I met in my life and this makes much more sense than 7.
Hi, Ginger—
Thanks for bringing up such a timely and interesting topic! Here are some thoughts and observations:
Re: reading – I’m a Seven, and I read voraciously. I read the dedication, the acknowledgements, the introduction – everything. It’s likely part of my FOMO, a classic symptom of Sevens. My Eight sister, on the other hand, can’t sit still long enough to read. I would think that if Trump were a Seven, his FOMO would make him want to know as much detail as possible.
Head Types want guidance; they want to know how to move forward in the world, and they need information to do it. Gut Types are “autonomy” types, with the central theme of “Don’t mess with me.” Trump’s willingness to move unilaterally and ignore others’ opinions points toward Eight. This aligns with your comment about Eights “simply taking what they want in order to reduce frustration.”
Re: narcissism – My understanding of narcissism, or any behavioral disorder, is that one type may be most prone to it but that any type can succumb to it. I see more showmanship and grandiosity in Trump, both Eight characteristics, than narcissism, though those traits are there, too. However, a Seven wing could account for the narcissistic flavor.
I don’t agree with the assessment that Trump is non-empathic. He seems genuinely concerned about poor treatment of certain groups of people, such as wounded veterans and the Syrians who suffered gas attacks. This, to my mind, aligns with the Eight desire to defend and protect the underdog.
Re: manner of speaking – I’m clear about my tendency to go down rabbit trails when I speak, and I notice it in other Sevens, but what I notice in Trump is an unfiltered type of gut speech. For this reason, he is not articulate. I think his thoughts are incomplete because he hasn’t taken the time to think them through. He is simply reacting in the moment, from his gut. Again, I point to my Eight sister, as well as my Eight father-in-law, both of whom have the tendency to speak impulsively and without deliberation.
Re: desire to be taken seriously – You noted that Eights are usually respected so don’t need to desire it, and I think that’s what Trump had experienced his whole adult life until becoming president. In his circles of business and life, he was wildly successful and famous. I think it shocked him when he announced his candidacy that so many people suddenly hated him and sought to discredit him. He’d never encountered such opposition before. That likely accounts for the level of vitriol he levels at all opponents. He won’t back down. I call Eights the pitbulls of the Enneagram, and Trump certainly embodies that quality when anyone questions his capability or dominance.
I would point out, too, that during the presidential debates, Trump looked to me like he was having fun. He was relishing the fight. That’s Eight, not Seven. I hate conflict, though Sevens with and Eight wing are more up for it, but not up for it as much as Trump! Also, look at his expression: most of the time, he’s got squinted eyes and a pursed mouth. He is assessing the situation, scanning the room for who’s got power and who’s a threat – concerns of an Eight.
On a personal level, I’ll agree with Jay’s comment that Sevens typically hate responsibility. I have actually said more than once, “Oh God, please don’t ever make me be the president!”
Finally, I’ll quote from Riso & Hudson’s Levels of Development for Eight:
Level 5 – “Eights worry that others will not respect them or give them their due, so they try to convince others of their importance. They boast, bluff and make big promises to get people aligned with their plans. Willful and proud, they want others to know that they are in charge.”
I’m not saying Trump is at Level 5; I’m using this excerpt because I see Trump’s behavior in these words and sometimes in the words for Level 6. Others may place him in the unhealthy realm of Level 7 or below; that’s not for me to decide or diagnose. I’ve already taken up too much space, probably, so I won’t quote the corresponding material for Type Seven, but the contrasts are clear to me in terms of behavior under stress. I would recommend anyone who’s interested to investigate the Levels on this topic.
Thanks again, Ginger, for this opportunity to discuss this.
I’m wondering about Trump’s childhood and if his childhood wounds give direction to his type. From what I read and know it would be easy to envision him having the childhood experience of a 3, 7 or 8. I have always thought of him as an 8 with 7 wing, but your blog gives me food for thought. Love it that you gave it attention and had the courage to post.
Very interesting!
Your spell-check seems to be challenged by “empathic” and “emphatic”
He’s non-empathic
8s | some are more emphatic than others; some highly empathic
3s | some are more emphatic than others; some highly empathic
7s | non-empathic unless quite high in self-mastery
I see this is an older post but would really like to add my two cents as a 7w8. I own a business and use the enneagram to help my Staff more easily get along and to help my business be more peaceful. I have gotten into so many heated debates about DT’s enneatype and having coached my staff in such an intimate way due to the nature of my business I strongly believe he is an unhealthy 3. The main reason is the way he lies. 7’s And 8’s don’t lie to deceive. Unhealthy 3’s are delusional narcissists who are masters at gas-lighting and projecting their own narrative into their perceived enemy. Unhealthy 3’s fully believe they are the victims. Unhealthy 3’s love fame and prestige. 7’s and 8’s don’t typically care about fame. 7’s can take a joke. 8’s could care less about others opinions and wouldn’t spend so much time defending themselves. 8’s are rarely flashy. 7’s teeter between flashy and homeless and enjoy the experience of both. It is widely known that Donald Trump does NOT drink. Have you ever met a 7 that doesn’t drink? In 10 years of running my business and teaching the enneagram I have had several 7’s, 8’s and 3’s work for me. All of the 7’s are still there because I value freedom for not only myself but for them. The 8’s are still there because I don’t try to control them. Every single 3 reaches a certain level of success and tries to take over my company. When I don’t allow them to do so they turn me into the devil so they can feel like the victim, attack my character by making up blatant lies and belittle anyone who doesn’t agree with them. They either quit or I have to fire them. 8’s don’t shortcut their way to success. Unhealthy 3’s will manipulate and cheat their to the top. I’ve never met a mean 7. They want happiness and joy. Despite 8’s seemingly bullish tendencies they adhere to their firm moral compass as much as 1’s. 8’s Don’t cheat and they despise HATE cheaters. 7’s want freedom NOT power. 8’s don’t care about power, they just don’t want to be controlled. 3’s get high on power. They also say stupid things all the time but get away with it because they’re so charming, energetic and will work their tales off to get to fame. I’ve let so many Toxic 3’s overstay their welcome because they worked so hard and could really crack me up sometimes. 7’s do not hold grudges. 8’s will but their revenge will be quick, powerful and pointed. 3’s take EVERYTHING personally and you have no idea they took one thing you said 5 years ago personally and let it brew until they need to use it to defend themselves, deflect from attacks towards them or attack you with it. So anyway, that’s why I really think he’s an unhealthy 3.
I so agree with your assessment, of DT and overall the low-level 3’s tendencies and behaviors, i.e. the getting high on power, manipulation, narcissistic tendencies, gaslighting, etc. I have a sister that is a 3 and this describes her to a tee – incredibly successful in her own right, talented, but deadly toxic and manipulative. I am a 9 and it took me a long time to figure out the type of person she was because I was so focused on preserving the peace. But low level 3’s don’t care about peace, if the ship is sinking they will surely let you drown and that’s the rub.
I’m a 7 and I never drink. And 7’s don’t like to be challenged or criticized. They become really assertive when criticized and can challenge back. I don’t think trump is a 7 but I do think he’s a 8 wing 7. 7’s will lie or others will think they lied but they haven’t by speaking in a flow (often not intentionally).
By not being very specific and detailed in what they say. Trump often speaks in ways that paint a big picture. 7’s will speak in this way often. If you take anything from that big picture and isolate it out of context you can see it being false but in the bigger picture of what said there are truths to it.
Also 7’s are big visionaries and good strategist. Something he has as well.
You also mention power. Control is power. He loves to be in control in every situation even if it makes him look bad. Example debates or when being interviewed. He is all about dominance and reading his books thinks with his gut and instincts a lot. Hallmark of 8.
That’s why I think he is:
8 wing 7 and not a 3
I do think he has a strong 3 component. We are not solely boxed into our ennaegram type. We have a dominant type and components of others. I do see a large 3 component in him.
Counterphobic 6, puzzle solved.
I considered him a potential counter-phobic 6w7 but I’m now convinced he is a 8w7. One of the 8’s key motivations is to be important to the world whereas a cp6’s motives are to deflect their own anxiety by making themselves look/feel powerful. In short, an 8 actually FEELS powerful/secure/etc whereas a cp6 fakes it. Despite public outcry against his direction for the country, as an 8 he’s confident that his idea for a better America are the right ones so no one is going to convince him otherwise (including the public or other world leaders). You don’t see much self doubt the way a cp6 might show. One could even argue that Donald Trump’s run for president may have been a sign of healthy 8 behavior (ironic as it may seem). I do believe that he ran for president because he wanted to help the country he loves, regardless of whether or not I agree with his way of “helping”. This theory would be evidence of an 8 moving in the direction of integration at 2! It’s hard to argue that Trump is an emotionally healthy anything, but then again everything is relative.
what evidence is there that he loves this country? I do see him as counterphobic six…he is obviously insecure and fakes the strong man. I see the Twitter storms as a safe place from which to throw punches. The idea of 7 or 8 at core doesn’t explain all the low functioning 3 behaviors (win at all cost, cheat if necessary, use numbers–even if you have to make them up–to prove that you won). Counterphobic 6 declining further into 3 explains that. and a 7 wing explains all the low function 7 behaviors.
he’s not a 7. I think he appears very grandiose and should sign of blame and denial (actually quite frequently). I think he’s a 8w7 835 sp/so
The biggest thing that makes me doubt him being an 8, is that 8’s tend not to be bullies. They value the underdogs and are actually quite empaphetic. They are like Great Danes – extremely friendly dogs, but due to their size they may bump a few people out of their way unintentionally.
I have ALWAYS thought he was a 7 and nothing has proven this more than his crazy press conferences related to COVID-19. He CANNOT feel pain, like a 7, thus he spins everything to the “positive” or the “possible”–just like a 7.
Delightful discussion.
I am a sidereal astrologer which we call the science of light. As soon as I learned the Enneagram I realized it was planetary type, so unlike most schools of the Enneagram I pay attention to body type. The gas giants Jupiter, Saturn and Uranus give larger bodies and movement, , and the smaller planets, Mercury, Venus, earth and Mars, giving smaller frames and quicker movement. each human is a 10 dimensional miracle of consciousness, spun by the lathe of heaven. a five pointed human star with a natural character, an chief element, and full range of evolutionary possibilities. We are all seeing the 3 facets of Donald’s star, the 3, is his Venus, the dominant drive of his life, the race horse of success, to be the best, and puts him in the feeling family. He also has a powerful 2, which is Mars, pride, a frustrated impulse in him since he has learning challenges which is my he attacks to distract the social world from seeing his weakness, also an athletic
nature which if not expressed expands into Jupiter which functions as the alpha on a revenge track. Jupiter, 8 is a teacher of something, even when not healthy, and a great teacher in it’s loving expression like Oprah. I see Donald as a 2 in great embarising pain. it is interesting if this virus is the thing that takes him down, a very Mars, water, Scorpio expression.
Woah
Yes, definitely a 7!! Just google Beatrice Chestnut’s description of a self-preservation 7 and you will find Trump all the way down to the quid pro quo.
It’s June 2020. I’m an E 8, have studied the Enneagram deeply and have recognized quite a few things in Trump, things that are possibilities.Yet by now I’ve been looking and looking for his withdrawal to the closet/ castle or golf course, never to emerge again. But no.Instead yes, the relentless spiraling downward…
This is a profoundly insightful. After reading this and Beatrice Chestnut’s description of a self-preservation 7, I am convinced Trump is a 7. However, we’ll never know for sure unless Trump decides he needs to figure out his enneagram number.
https://www.personalitycafe.com/threads/self-preservation-sevens-according-to-beatrice-chestnut.735738/
Beatrice Chestnut’s description of a self preservation 7 describes Trump so consistently from the art of the deal, to the quid pro quo, to the mafia style business family.
His handling of the Covid is very 7 with suggesting miracle cures. I even think of how Trump expresses gluttony with the piles of food in the White House.
Couldn’t Trump be a counterphobic six? They are also loyalists and expect loyalty. They are skeptics that can fall into paranoia. And they are vicious counter-punchers. What if Trump’s father is the 8 authority figure that he emulates, thus disguising his personality.
I think low functioning counterphobic 6 w 7 wing who further declines to ugly 3 is a framework that really does explain what we see. We know he has always felt that he was not accepted by the NY rich business community (6 needs to belong)…the decline to 3 explains the “win at all costs…cheat to win (even at golf)….focus on “numbers” as evidence of accomplishment…. Self aggrandizement….And low functioning counterphobic 6 explains the ugly 8-like behavior. He is not really a fighter; he picks fights and then runs away. I think his Twitter storms are a “safe” place to throw punches. Everyone acknowledges that he is insecure and the bluster is always directed at those he fears. I think this also explains his demand for loyalty and his lack of trust of others NDAs, etc. And somewhere I read that cp 6 will make up facts and blame others (low functioning 3 spins facts and also will blame others and blame circumstances for what others might perceive as their failures). I think he is too nasty to be a 7, and his niece (who is a psychologist) says he has no sense of humor. BUT the 7 wing (again, low function) explains his constant motion, inability to focus and pay attention, his varied business ventures (real estate, casinos, tv show, selling steaks, golf courses, hotels, Trump University, etc.)…and can contribute to his flip flopping of ideas and strategies.
Oct 2020.As an8 I always thought Trump is an 8 and yet! Never displayed any. Behavior suggesting going to 2 or 5.which even in an unhealthy 8 would happen.
This idea ,that he is a 7 spiraling down ,down ,down ,taking everything with him now seems prescient.
Wow, thank you for sharing this Ginger. I too have been tossing between 8 and 3, but reading this it all seems to click now. There is a documentary on Netflix call The CON-fidence man…. talks about how he has always been able to manipulate media for his gain.
Showing all three types in each situation was extremely helpful and bought much clarity. Thank you for sharing this.
It seems more sense he demonstrates Type 7 w 8 wing. Many of his ways of being just was not resonating with my Type 8.
Having 8 Type myself… I am viewing this all as a huge billboard as to what unhealthy looks like and making sure to constantly do the work on myself.
Lydia, I appreciate your huge billboard comment — no matter his dominant style, etc. the billboard for me, dominant ‘3’, is to use all my practices and tools 24/7 so I NEVER show up in unhealthy levels, try for rare appearances at average health levels, and strive for levels of health 1-3 for my domiant style and all the other styles that present in me. With great humor, I tell my Enneagram chums and clients, the man has influenced me, impressed upon me to be a better person!
I just found this post (a bit late) and it confirms what I was thinking. I was driving in the car yesterday thinking about what number Trump would be. On the radio, they were talking about the influence that Norman Vincent Peale’s ideas have had on him and how committed he is to, “positive thinking,” to the point of coming across as being dishonest. It occurred to me that any number potentially could be interested in those ideas, but they would resonate particularly strongly with 7s, given their tendency to reframe. As I thought about it, I became more and more convinced that he is a 7. His apparent inability to cope with any negativity seems to be fairly standard lower-side 7. Anyway, thanks for the article.
A friend of mine proposed that Donald might be a counterphobic 6 with a 7 wing, moving toward the low side of 3 in path of decline. That made some sense to me because of his issues with loyalty, constant push, and so many of the points you made about his 7 characteristics. 6 is also an emotionally reactive type and can project and blame out. I see that some other also picked up on the counterphobic 6 idea.
Thanks for your write up. It would be a benefit to know what to expect.
I am unaware of where the type behavioral function observations were sourced from. They are insightful at the least. I like how there is less blatant Trump hatred in this particular discussion. Most people are blinded in their evaluation by their own loathing of him. I think he is actually in “growth” mode. He seems happier than he did earlier in his life—as if he completed some task of his and now he’s just chilling. He could even be an eight/nine and his “success” in life has made him a three/two seemingly, when stressed, he becomes more of an eight/nine.
Great article. I’d guess that Trump is a self-preservation 7, (keeper of the castle). His casino was called Trump’s castle.
I am a 7 with 8 wing. Trump definitely 8 w 7 wing. He says women like him because he protects them. Its clear Trump is a combative 8 with 7 flare.
I think he’s a 4w3. I think people might shy away from such an identification because of precious interpretations of the concept of “creative.” His clear desire to be an uncaused cause and owe nothing to anyone is vintage 4. the 3 aspects should be pretty obvious.
There is one distinctive feature in almost all of Trump’s speech ; almost everything is expressed as strong/weak.
You’re in his inner circle, or you’re out. Betrayal (or what he perceives as such) is his red button.
These, in my view, are quite compelling indicators of a dominant Type 8 strategy.
Much as I appreciate your speculation of a possible Type 7 at play with Trump…. When was the last time you saw him being fun and playful, thinking in options and possibilities, being optimistic and bringing joy? As a final consideration, when in stress, 8’s go to 5, and Trump “went to his cave” after the election. 7’s under stress will often (sometimes frantically) attend to tasks they have neglected, again, doesn’t appear that way to me…
As far as Type 3 is concerned, i don’t really see it so much, his outward projection of success and wealth, in my view, is about him wanting to be seen as powerful and respected. Speaking of which, his biggest fear (judging from afar), is to not be respected… Ironic, isn’t it? 😉
I’ve kept this post in a tickle file because, for me, it’s been very interesting, educational, and a reminder for the professional integrity of Enneagram wisdom. Ginger, thanks for creating the post. So now we are post election and what has my attention from the original post is, If Trump is an 8, he would go into deep denial until his defense of denial would no longer function. Then he would crash. If Trump is a 3, he would go into more and more activity to prove his value until the point of failure. Then he would “hit the wall” and crash. If Trump is a 7, he would spiral down and nothing could stop this until he totally devolved, taking almost everyone with him in the process. He seems to be revealing the 8 and 7 thing nearly at a tie. I’ve also been curious about his lead instinct. It’s been written that he is a germ-o-phoebe (what a time for Covid) but I’m not sure I think that equates to self-prez for him. I’ve thought more sexual as his lead instinct. Any thoughts to help me?
Dear Ginger
I would like to have your idea of his sexual behavior added to this magnificent article.
Trump is a self preservation seven.
I have a enneagram theory ( it’s called iceeneagram) I created it myself and I definitely believe that he is Five. When we look at ICenneagram we breakdown vices & virtues: Greed would be he Vice/ Knowledge is Virtue (to me, these are hallmarks and cannot be denied)
Growth & Stress: I believe that his outward expressions of dominance are actual 8 growth points, his stress being 7 – the scattered and childlike aspects showing. Threes & Eights are high performing so I believe that the three aspect is misidentified. Lets Look at the the Five Wings : 6, loyalty matters , Family matters . Four Wing shows up as Individualistic, Envy, taste in finer things. I don’t believe in coincidences, and I find your pictures shows him coming from the 5! Thoughts?
I use Harville Hendrix Imago Theory to determine the why for the whether the type is in Fear Anger or Shame. Trump punched his 2nd grade music teacher in the face, Concern for Others 7-13 LONER fear of Ostracism. A #3 SHAME persona. Obama and Jobs are ATTACHMENT babies 1st 18 months, ‘O’ the AVOIDER and Jobs the CLINGER. They resent being orphaned by their mother/father and are very ANGRY. ‘O’ is the perfect #9 Peacemaker – talks a good game AVOIDS hand to hand combat yet seeks to avenge being raised white in black skin. Jobs is an expressive ANGRY #8 whose CLINGER wound almost cost him Apple.
I think Trump is definitely an 8 – an unhealthy one. I’ve noticed unhealthy people can be harder to type at times, due to often living partly in their wings more than others, and having low traits from both their growth and stress points. So they can present as ‘all over the place’. I think, too, attempting to type from outward behaviours can lead us down the rabbit hole as far as the enneagram goes, but as we know, it’s about motive, not behaviour. Also, any type can be a narc. He does has those intense, anger-based eyes that 8’s have. I’d say he’s an 8w7.
I think 8. He enjoys a battle, and laughs about it. He has a lot of very 8ish friends, too. Mike Tyson, and the guy who always wins the Superbowls. But he doesn’t start dumb battles. He actually is the only president in my entire lifetime (I’m 64) who didn’t start a new war, and pulled us out of three or four. He also made peace all over the place. Had he stayed in, Israel would have had forty peace treaties signed. So I say he’s got a nine wing. He actually told his supporters to deal kindly with the police at the Capitol and to remain peaceful. They didn’t listen because his Twitter feed was disconnected. Sad!
7’s are not “narcissistic” it’s completely unfair to label one enneagram type with a mental health issue that is totally dependent on childhood emotional support issues/ trauma. I personally know a 1, a 3, a 2, a 6 – all that have varying levels of narcissism- some MUCH more than others. Also he’s more likely a 8w7, many of your points were shallow and said more about your like/dislike for him and the 7 type.
That’s all.
Bye 🙄
I had a 7 friend who mirrored Trumps narcissism (note I said “had” a friend). I think the going on attack out of insecurity is much more 7 than 8. 8’s having a much higher threshold before crashing. Also, as someone said “scratch a 7 and you get a 6” speaks to the counter phobic aspect. 8’s don’t need or want flattery while narcissistic 7’s absolutely do.
I don’t see validity in many of your observed aspects. I personally believe he is the most full on 8 I have ever observed, including a real heart for the disenfranchised. The need to win, refusal to admit errors, never asking forgiveness, holding grudges until he can strike back, waging personal battles with foreign leaders to establish his power quotient. Most of these are not strong at all in 7 types, but are present only somewhat in 3’s concerned with how they are being perceived. I don’t see Trump spending much energy on what people think of him. Maybe lost the election over this one.
Lol at people don’t say no to 8s. Until very recently, I’ve had to fight tooth and nail for everything I’ve ever gotten in my life because of how entrenched everyone around me has been in “how things are always done” and “you don’t follow social norms and are therefore worthless trash”. Large hive minds of unhealthy 6s and 3s have zero trouble saying no to whatever 8 is unfortunate enough to end up in their midst. Fortunately for the 8 and unfortunately for the hive mind, the 8 will bulldoze through anyway. The lucky 8s will learn to do it tactfully. Trump and the other unlucky ones never learn that you catch more flies with honey than vinegar, and the result is as you see.
I really like your analysis, first time I hear a point of view like yours. Going to the point I am an 8 with a 7 wing, but now at 70 I am more like a 5 with a big difference, I continue having a good sense of fairness, honesty, still love truth (whatever it may mean), and a balanced sense of justice, I continue being compassionate and tend to enlist on the side of the poor, destituted, and miserable people.
In my opinion D. Trump is a mentally ill counterphobic 6, many times confused with 8s.